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Hey Mathew! :-) Great post! It's nice to have a story that people can relate to.

In my opinion, I think this is verging on being stereotype - that you need a dad to be a man? I could be wrong, but that's the perception I get from the blog post?

I believe that becoming a man or being a man doesn't necessarily have to be about dad. I recently had a chat with a group of guys who are walking from Sydney to Brisbane to raise awareness of ReachOut.com and fund for Inspire. One of the things that Pete said was, "When my mum died, I had to grow up - I had to become a man". And I asked him what did he mean by that? He was 21 and "losing a mother figure at that age, you have no one to guide you and to teach you - and you are forced to grow up". So, I think that becoming a man or being a man doesn't necessarily have to involve dad. That being said, I understand and empathise those who lost their dad - its a tragic thing to love someone you love so much - but I think that doesn't mean that they wouldn't or cannot or might struggle to become a man.

I could have be wrong and could have read the message of your post in the wrong way. :-)

Its enlightening to know how your dad has served as a role model to you and how much you have learned from your dad!

Hi Ehon and thanks for the thought provoking reply.

I think discussing the role of dads in developing a sense of 'manliness' isn't as simplistic as whether or not you need them. I would try to take a more nuanced perspective.

There is no doubt that there are plenty of guys who would consider themselves 'men' who have grown up without their Dad being around.

I think it would be hypocritical of me and undesirable for anyone else to try and suggest that these guys are any more or less 'men' because of the absence of a Dad.

What I was hoping to trigger is a broader discussion about what kind of impact your dad had, and when your dad was absent – what impact did that have? Did it have no impact or a great impact? Who did you look to as a role model for masculinity and why?

As for my opinion, I reject the idea of 'manliness'. I don't think it's a useful construct. I think it intimidates disenfranchised men, and segregates society on gendered lines.

However it can't be denied that it has a huge impact on society. To that extent my dad had a huge influence on my understanding of masculinity, and I can't imagine what my world view would be like if it wasn't for him.

great blog post Mathew! It seems like your father has had a really big influence on your development into a man.

Interested in Ehon's point too - what about when you don't grow up with a dad? What or who influences you then?

And what about for people who lose their father - is there the pressure to become 'a man' (versus a child or teenager) earlier than you might otherwise?

This is a great blog Mathew! It's incredibly thought provoking, and a really interesting read.

The comments around what happs when a father is absent from boy's lives is especially interesting -- do boys feel the need to become 'men' earlier in these cases?

Mathew what  a fantastic blog and interesting read

Thanks Lia

Until I listened to Hack on triple j the other day, I’ve never in my life asked myself that question i.e. “when did I feel I became a man?” As a man of nearly 30-years old, physically I have the appearance of a man, but on the inside my life is a daily struggle to understand myself and be accepted by others around me. I'm a happy bloke, but very guarded and self-concious. My background is such that I’m an eldest brother of four who grew up in West Cork, Ireland. I grew up in a small town where our family was nick-named the Adams family because of my father’s physical appearance when he went walking anywhere. Naturally, secondary school was a difficult time. Similarly, anytime trouble happened in school, the principle would publicly call me to his office as a witness, resulting in me earning the tag of snitch.

My parents split up (like most) when I was 15 years old. My father was very lazy and was proud of his soft hands. He preferred to watch television than engage with me as a boy. My mother used to tell him off for taking a school class mate of mine fishing instead of me. When he moved out of home, I was at the age of discovering girls. I was very shy as a kid, blushed a lot and struggled with life generally. They say that dogs can smell fear. Well, believe me, other kids can smell fear and shyness just as well. My father provided me little encouragement or support as a kid. Once day I told him about the weekend gone and how I got drunk with my friends. I told him this in hope that he would see an opportunity and talk to me about drinking in general (hoping that it would lead onto other input on his behalf). Instead he told my mother and I got in trouble. After the separation he used to visit us every fort-night. He would have lunch on his own leaving us all to wait in the car until he was finished. I was told one day after shaving that I looked like a vampire. On another occasion, whilst he drove my three young brothers and me to his house for the weekend, he started to provoke me in the car and asked me if I had ever kissed a girl. This was humiliating to me in front of my brothers.

My father was never interested in asking me about girls, showing me how to shave, teach me how to drive nor explain what the essence of a man is.

Fast forward to right now, and I find myself living in Perth, with a few friends and engaged to an Australian girl.

I sometimes simply feel like I’m not living.

So to directly answer your question, I have never felt like I was a man. I wish I had the masculinity that most blokes have, but alas I do not. I wish I never had a father, instead of suffering the prick that was physically there for a time in my life. This is my cross to bear.

Hey Bodhran - thanks for sharing that :)

Really interesting to see how different people's fathers have / haven't impacted on their becoming a man, whatever that is for people.

For some people - eg Mathew - it seems to have been a really important part of your coming to understand what it is to be a man.

For others, like Bodhran, it sounds like you would really have appreciated some more input from your dad, and still feel the impact of that gap today.

And for some who lost their dads young, it did make them feel more 'manly' at quite a young age.

Others had other events which they felt triggered their feeling more like a man, which didn't necessarily have anything to do with their dads.

So, it seems like for some people their dads can definitely have an impact on what they understand a man to be, and when they do feel like a man, whereas for others this 'becoming a man' business is independent of their dads' influence.

Thanks again for sharing this Bodhran :)

Interest to hear other people's thoughts on this!

Anna

Edited by moderator about 1 year ago

Dear Matthew,

Thanks for starting this thread. I suspect I will be the oldest contributor here. I wrote a piece about my father some years ago. The link includes clips and hyerlinks. I reproduce the raw text below:

IIn  1992 my father, Alex, died. It was the end of a long period of loss in my life that haunts me still. I really “lost” my father when I was a young teenager. We just stopped talking and I began to learn to live alone without an adult mentor.

Say it loud, say it clear
You can listen as well as you hear
It’s too late when we die
To admit we don’t see eye to eye

I wasn’t there that morning
When my Father passed away
I didn’t get to tell him
All the things I had to say

My father was my hero. I was the eldest son and I suppose I cherished that early experience of “first claim” to his love and attention. In the shrine I designed to his memory there are two photos of Dad and me, just the two of us. They are the only photos ever taken of just us two. In one he is holding me  as a new babe and gazing down into my eyes. The other is a classic of Dad supporting me on his old “28 inch” bike with me in a baby dress of a typical one year old of the era!!! The bike was a great symbol of those early years. I have so many happy memories of Dad taking me for a “dink” sitting on the bar while he peddled. I still remember the nervous thrill of riding that same bike before I could even reach the seat. Somehow, once I learnt to ride on my own everything changed.

My father gave me inspiration. His faith was a traditional Catholicism with a passion for the poor and the marginalised. He would often take me with him to his voluntary work at the night shelter for the homeless in Geelong. Later in my teens I remember being in awe when I heard a testimonial to Dad and stories I never knew were made public of his commitment to the work of “Vinnies”

Our relationship was a strange bonding through unspoken words. I was a headstrong adolescent with a fiery temper that must have worried him. I was also an inquisitive young gay boy which I suspect he knew and carried inside with great anxiety and fear. Our religion and our culture didn’t allow us to explore the curiosity and libido inside me.

I miss my Dad, I miss all we could have been for each other. As he lay dying the  “Living Years” lyrics were all around me like a spirit calling me to face the loss of so much. His funeral was a great tribute, but they didn’t play the song he had always wanted: Nearer My God to Thee.

Though like the wanderer,
The sun gone down,
Darkness be over me,
My rest a stone,
Yet in my dreams I’d be
Nearer, my God, to thee,
Nearer, my God, to thee,
Nearer to thee!

I am like my father in many ways. I have his strength and resilience. I have his passion and I suspect I share much of his quiet reserve about his inner life………..yet in a way this writing is a long step from “quiet reserve”!! He served in Borneo and  PNG during WWII. Yet he never marched in an ANZAC parade and never really spoke of what happened to him during those frightful years. We both hide much of our lives deep inside where no-one has access, except perhaps the spirit of healing who alone can break through the heavy heart .RIP my loving Dad. I miss you still.

Edited by moderator about 1 year ago